Peak by Friday: Girls’ Basketball as an Insurgency

I typically like Malcom Gladwell. However, Gladwell is a runner, not a basketball player, and he is better off sticking to things that he knows, rather than trying to make the most ridiculous points possible using the most far-reaching comparisons.

In his latest article, he compares a girls’ basketball team that presses to David beating Goliath and Lawrence of Arabia. Honestly, I could not read the details because his points about basketball were so simplistic and misunderstood that it rendered the rest of his argument meaningless, and I don’t care about biblical verses. Unfortunately, after reading three poorly articulated articles in a row, Gladwell’s is the one that drew my ire to a point where I had to comment on something.

Basically, an immigrant from India coaches his daughter’s basketball team. He doesn’t understand the way Americans play basketball and thinks it is silly for the defense to run back on defense. He is an MIT-educated engineer, so somehow this thought-process is different than with the thousands of other youth coaches who press because in Gladwell’s eyes, this one press is innovative.

Is it any wonder that Ranadivé looked at the way basketball was played and found it mindless?A professional basketball game was forty-eight minutes long, divided up into alternating possessions of roughly twenty seconds: back and forth, back and forth. But a good half of each twenty-second increment was typically taken up with preliminaries and formalities. The point guard dribbled the ball up the court. He stood above the top of the key, about twenty-four feet from the opposing team’s basket. He called out a play that the team had choreographed a hundred times in practice. It was only then that the defending team sprang into action, actively contesting each pass and shot…It was as formal and as convention-bound as an eighteenth-century quadrille. The supporters of that dance said that the defensive players had to run back to their own end, in order to compose themselves for the arrival of the other team. But the reason they had to compose themselves, surely, was that by retreating they allowed the offense to execute a play that it had practiced to perfection. Basketball was batch!

Now, I like a press as much as the next guy. However, with good players, presses do not work. Presses give the offense more space to attack. Presses work in youth basketball because the defense is ahead of the offense. It takes almost no skill to play defense: when I coached u-9 boys, our best defender was a soccer player who missed half of our practices to play competitive soccer, but he was fast; when I coached junior college basketball, our best defender was a sprinter who could not dribble the ball even though she was 5’5, but she could defend anyone with her speed and a little bit of game understanding.

Secondly, presses rely on offensive players making poor or rushed decisions. As the offensive player feels pressure, his vision narrows and he makes bad decisions. In the NBA, players have time and space and do not feel the pressure.They have confidence in their ball skills. They have confidence to yell at a teammate if they need someone to set a screen or come back to catch the pass.

Third, with young girls especially, it is hard to throw the ball the length of the court. So, even if the player has confidence with the ball and has a wide open teammate 80-feet away under her offensive basket, the defense is fast enough to catch up to the flight of the ball. Therefore, the defense can condense the court and only cover the back court, turning a 94-feet game into a 50-foot game. In the NBA, that doesn’t work. Even against defensive pressure any NBA player can throw the ball 90-feet to a wide open target.

In basketball played by skilled players, the defense retreats to take away the space. The defense’s goal is to force the offense into a contested shot. By extending the defense, the defense gives the offense more space to find an open player for an open shot. This is why shooters are important. If a team has no three-point shooters, the defense can pack it in even further and force the offense to shoot 18-20-foot jump shots. However, if the team has a bunch of shooters, the defense has to spread all the way to the three-point line, which opens more lanes to get into the middle of the court and collapse the defense, leading to open shots.

In youth basketball, presses work, which is why 90% of youth teams use them. Apparently the only place where youth teams do not press is in Redwood City and wherever Gladwell watches youth basketball games.

As often as not, the teams Redwood City was playing against simply couldn’t make the inbounds pass within the five-second limit. Or the inbounding player, panicked by the thought that her five seconds were about to be up, would throw the ball away. Or her pass would be intercepted by one of the Redwood City players. Ranadivé’s girls were maniacal.

Actually, this is one of my arguments for the Playmakers Basketball Development League. Young and/or novice players need more room to practice their skills, while advanced players need more practice in limited space to improve their skills. At 12-years-old, these players are developmental players and the goal should be learning new skills and developing into better players, not just winning. There are programs that win tons of games – AAU National Championships even – because they press, press, press, but at practice, they practice their press and lay-ups.

But, the players never improve their other skills. They may have a great season, but they will have a hard time playing at the next age group if they have no other skills. If the goal is to win a youth league, by all means, press. It is the easiest way to win at the level. But, winning does mean that players are improving or learning.

Because they typically got the ball underneath their opponent’s basket, they rarely had to take low-percentage, long-range shots that required skill and practice. They shot layups. “What that defense did for us is that we could hide our weaknesses,” Rometra Craig said.

Exactly. Most youth games are a battle of who can get and make the most lay-ups. Hiding weaknesses is a great approach to win a game; however, against better players – and there are much better players than a local recreation league in Redwood City – what will these girls do? How will they  handle a press against bigger, stronger girls? How will they adapt when they play offensive players with a little skill who do not panic with the ball? How will they play at the next level if they cannot shoot from outside?

“We followed soccer strategy in practice,” Ranadivé said. “I would make them run and run and run. I couldn’t teach them skills in that short period of time, and so all we did was make sure they were fit and had some basic understanding of the game. That’s why attitude plays such a big role in this, because you’re going to get tired.”

Is this a track team? Fitness is great and being in shape is great. But, what are the goals? This is the definition of a Peak by Friday mentality and the problem with many youth leagues. With so little time to practice, we’ll be in better shape and overwhelm them with defense. How do players develop skills in this atmosphere? How do they learn to read the game?

The trouble for Redwood City started early in the regular season. The opposing coaches began to get angry. There was a sense that Redwood City wasn’t playing fair—that it wasn’t right to use the full-court press against twelve-year-old girls, who were just beginning to grasp the rudiments of the game. The point of basketball, the dissenting chorus said, was to learn basketball skills.

I am not one who says that there should be a no press rule if the league is set up as a competitive league where winning trumps everything. However, as I have suggested repeatedly on the blog and in Cross Over: The New Model for Youth Basketball Development, I think players should play more developmentally-appropriate games.

As 12-year-olds, the press is fine. The problem, however, is that many girls in this league start at 8-years-old and they are unable to handle a press four years later. The problem isn’t the one team that presses with 12-year-olds: the problem is that for four years, players have done the same things playing with the same rules and they have not developed the skills necessary to make inbounds passes under pressure or pass out of a trap.

I question the coaching methods of the team because they admitted to making no attempt to develop their players’ skills. However, the other team’s complaints are unjustified, as players should have basic skills by 12-years-old. Defense will still be ahead of the offense, but if coaches teach skills each year, it starts to balance out.

The problem, I imagine, is that in previous seasons, the complaining coaches sat back in zone defenses and ran set plays and spent all practice memorizing set plays and different defenses to win their games, so their kids never developed basic skills either. When they faced a press, they were ill-equipped to handle the press.

Players need to develop skills. They need to be taught how to handle pressure and develop passing and ball handling skills. 12-year-olds should be developing proper shooting technique.

The problem is the win-at-all-costs or Peak by Friday mindset where coaches prepare to beat their next opponent rather than developing general skills to help the players in this season and beyond. I, for one, would never send a player to a basketball practice where all they did was run, run, run. If I wanted a player to run, I would join a junior track program, where at least they would run on a trail, grass or all-weather track to reduce the jarring impact from running on a hardwood floor. Furthermore, what about teaching players how tomove correctly? Jump, land, bend, squat, shuffle? ACL injuries are an epidemic in girls’ basketball because of coaching like this that focuses solely on “being hard,” running and winning with no thought given to the health of the players or the players’ future.

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~ by Brian McCormick on May 11, 2009.

17 Responses to “Peak by Friday: Girls’ Basketball as an Insurgency”

  1. I also read that article when it came out. I thought it was interesting about David and Goliath and Lawrence of Arabia and unconventional strategies. But the application to pressing in basketball was odd because every youth team presses. Especially the more athletically talented, more established teams. I’d argue that the press is the Goliath strategy, the British strategy, the conventional and expected. And characterizing rich white girls with professional athlete coaches as the underdogs is funny.

    Specifically, the strategy of not guarding the inbounder is hardly innovative. When my son first started youth basketball years ago, the first thing they worked on was the press break (because, again, every youth team presses) and it was based on the presumption that the inbounder is usually not covered.

    The press in the NBA doesn’t work and was a failure by Pitino because, like you said, the guards are just too good.

    Anyway, glad you wrote this.

    Next, Gladwell is going to write an article on a football team who uses the unconventional technique of the forward pass.

  2. Tremendous post. Should be required reading for every league director and youth basketball coach.

  3. IMO … and, with all due respect, you [Brian, Tomscott99 and Cgbasket] are missing the key points in Gladwell’s article.

    When I first read it through and then passed it along to others, in hard-copy form, it was with the following proviso:

    Here. Please take a look at this. Try your best to disregard the technical basketball deficiencies in the article itself … e.g. “pressing”, by itself, is in fact not a cure all for anything of substance which ails a basketball team, at any level of competition … and get a sense of the “bigger picture” which the author is attempting to explore and explain to a fairly wide audience in The New Yorker … e.g. THE WAY for David to succeed against Goliath is most frequently rooted in “strategic unconventionality”, relative to a specific environment, and that this type of “insurgency” usually renders the practicioner of said strategies & tactics in direct opposition to the prevailing establishment which supports said environment, in the first place, rather than trying to find a better way to turn the wheel.

    As I’ve mentioned before here …

    “The cup seems rather full” sometimes when it comes to looking at and then assessing accurately the applicability of concepts and ideas … big and/or small … which are foreign to the local intelligensia … which is surprising, given the inquisitive and imaginative nature of the minds at-work in these parts.

    In a situation like this … i.e. understanding re: an author like Gladwell and a subject like basketball … it can be important and beneficial to see, both, the trees and the forest, simultaneously … not just one or the other.

    For my part, I am willing to bet a sizable sum of my own hard-earned $$$ that, in reality, each of you have more in common with Lawrence of Arabia, Rick Pitino, and Vivek Ranadive, etc., than you do with the “gate-keepers of the establishment” who habitually rail against the out-of-the-box-thinking of an individual like Malcolm Gladwell.

  4. As I said, I like Gladwell. I think he gets too much credit for certain things (I have seen many articles that suggest that Gladwell somehow created the 10,000 hour rule rather reporting about it), but I have read his books and generally enjoy his columns.

    However, that does not mean that he is beyond reproach. In this case, to someone with a casual affiliation with youth basketball, he contradicts his own argument. Pressing teams in youth basketball are not the Goliaths – they are the Davids. They are the bigger, stronger, faster kids.

    Now, that’s great that you forwarded the article to people and told them to disregard the lead in and half the article. It’s too bad that Gladwell’s editors did not offer the same advice.

    Also, if this site was not about basketball strategy, I might ignore Gladwell’s specifics and focus on his generalities.

    However, Gladwell espouses in his article an appreciation for a style that I find at fault for many of the ills in youth basketball: the Peak by Friday, run, run, run, be stronger and faster, overwhelm them with a press, don’t bother to develop skills approach to a youth recreation league.

    As I replied to Kevin Carroll when he emailed me after my comment on his blog, had Gladwell used Pitino as his lead-in and ignored the youth basketball angle, his article would be more compelling and could illicit a discussion about why more college and pro teams do not press.

    However, as it is, roughly half the article focuses on a girls’ basketball team and its coaches who exhibit, in my opinion, a poor approach to coaching, which is the point of my blog about the article.

  5. In paragraph 2, I flipped David and Goliath. It should read:

    Pressing teams in youth basketball are not the Davids – they are the Goliaths. They are the bigger, stronger, faster kids.

  6. The point about the teams which usually press in basketball being of the Goliath variety is accurate … but, is applied incorrectly in this instance when assessing the attributes of both Ranadive’s girls’ team and Pitino’s Kentucky team [with John Pelfrey and Jamal Mashburn, etc.].

    These two teams are/were NOT, in fact, Goliaths; yet, still “succeeded” on the court, at least, to a certain extent, with this specific tactic [rather than a strategy] at the core of their philosophy.

    Without knowing the specific details of Ranadive’s team, other than what’s provided in the article … I’d be willing to suggest that the design of their practices actually mirrored the principles which are advocated by the likes of Brian McCormick and other good coaches everywhere, i.e. with an emphasis on individual conditioning, FUNDAMENTAL SKILLS, and then sound team concepts.

    [e.g. I am willing to bet that those actually girls spent the majority of their practice time drilling a variety of different layup techniques, passing, dribbling, 1-on-1 defense, etc., rather than executing a series of "scripted set plays" and/or a highly structured "motion" offense.]

    Instead of focussing on “the press” which these girls used … take the time to examine the remainder of the ideas which are covered in the article.

    [Hint: Try to start without a bias "against" any specific type of basketball to begin with ... which helps to keep the mind "open".]

    There are a number of positive contributions in Gladwell’s article. :-)

  7. Khandor:
    You’re reading things that aren’t even there and superimposing your thoughts as to how you would prepare in that situation. The coach says he copied a “soccer practice” (a bad soccer practice at that) and made the girls “run, run, run.” He even says, “I couldn’t teach them skills in that short period of time.”

    How do you take that comment and come up with the idea that he was teaching in a way that is remotely close to what I advocate?

  8. The article in question is 9 pages long.

    Today I showed it to:

    * A late 40′s female who is not a basketball fan but some who enjoys athletics;

    * A 15 year old girl who is not a basketball fan but who enjoys athletics;

    and,

    * A 13 year old boy who is a recreational/lower level basketball player;

    none of whom thought the main thrust of Gladwell’s piece was “the press” which Ranadive’s girls’ team used in their games and/or the practices he chose to run.

    What they each thought instead was that Gladwell focused his piece on the “strategic unconventionality” which was used by Davids to defeat Goliaths, in a variety of different forms, and the specific type of out-of-the-box-thinking which would allow a David-like team to use techniques & concepts employed most frequently by Goliaths themselves when faced with foes the calibre of Davids.

    Breaking down the article, this is what you’ll find, in terms of actual content:

    Page 1
    - Ranadive’s decision to coach without screaming & to focus on the defensive side of the game using the entire floor

    Page 2
    - Ranadive decision to use a full-court press
    - The findings of political scientist Ivan Arreguin-Toft
    - The biblical story of David & Goliath
    - The WW1 story of Lawrence of Arabia

    Page 3
    - The WW1 story of Lawrence of Arabia
    - Ranadive’s personal background in business & education [e.g. the notion of 'batch time' vs 'real time']

    Page 4
    - real life examples of ‘batch time’ scenarios and there applicability within a basketball environment
    - interpreting the biblical David as an insurgent
    - the involvement of Roger & Rometra Craig with Ranadive’s team
    - how the press strategy actually worked with Ranadive’s team

    Page 5
    - how the press strategy actually worked with Ranadive’s team
    - the importance of attacking an opponent’s area of weakness
    - the importance of personal fitness
    - the importance of a team attitude
    - the 1971 Fordham Rams of Digger Phelps

    Page 6
    - the 1971 Fordham Rams of Digger Phelps
    - Rick Pitino’s experience with pressing basketball, as a UMass student, as a coach at Boston U, Providence, Kentucky and Louisville

    Page 7
    - the findings of Arreguin-Toft when analyzing for “unconventional warfare strategies” used by successful Davids
    - the conscious decision of other coaches to reject Pitino’s concepts on the value of pressing
    - Stanford U computer scientist Doug Lenat, his articial-intelligence program [i.e. Eurisko] & the Traveller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament

    Page 8
    - Stanford U computer scientist Doug Lenat, his articial-intelligence program [i.e. Eurisko] & the Traveller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament
    - The “Insurgent’s Creed”
    - TE Lawrence and the biblical David and early 1920′s Jewish immigrants at Ivy league schools, and Eurisko, as examples of “insurgents”

    Page 9
    - the attitude of opponent coaches
    - How things ended up with Ranadive’s girls team

    ————————————
    re: Lawrence attacked the Turks where they were weak—the railroad—and not where they were strong, Medina. Redwood City attacked the inbounds pass, the point in a game where a great team is as vulnerable as a weak one. Lawrence extended the battlefield over as large an area as possible. So did the girls of Redwood City. They defended all ninety-four feet. The full-court press is legs, not arms. It supplants ability with effort. It is basketball for those “quite unused to formal warfare, whose assets were movement, endurance, individual intelligence . . . courage.”

    “It’s an exhausting strategy,” Roger Craig said. He and Ranadivé were in a TIBCO conference room, reminiscing about their dream season. Ranadivé was at the whiteboard, diagramming the intricacies of the Redwood City press. Craig was sitting at the table.

    “My girls had to be more fit than the others,” Ranadivé said.

    “He used to make them run,” Craig said, nodding approvingly.

    “We followed soccer strategy in practice,” Ranadivé said. “I would make them run and run and run. I couldn’t teach them skills in that short period of time, and so all we did was make sure they were fit and had some basic understanding of the game. That’s why attitude plays such a big role in this, because you’re going to get tired.” He turned to Craig. “What was our cheer again?”

    The two men thought for a moment, then shouted out happily, in unison, “One, two, three, ATTITUDE!”

    That was it! The whole Redwood City philosophy was based on a willingness to try harder than anyone else.

    “One time, some new girls joined the team,” Ranadivé said, “and so in the first practice I had I was telling them, ‘Look, this is what we’re going to do,’ and I showed them. I said, ‘It’s all about attitude.’ And there was this one new girl on the team, and I was worried that she wouldn’t get the whole attitude thing. Then we did the cheer and she said, ‘No, no, it’s not One, two three, ATTITUDE. It’s One, two, three, attitude HAH ’ ”—at which point Ranadivé and Craig burst out laughing.
    ————————————

    Understanding how a specific quote fits within a specific context is very important.

  9. How do you take that comment and come up with the idea that he was teaching in a way that is remotely close to what I advocate?

    * Being in tip-top physical condition is a guiding principle which is advocated by most top-level coaches across all team sports.

    * In order to actually MAKE the layups Ranadive’s team was generating with its press it would have had to spend a substantial portion of its practice time on the proper execution of this fundamental offensive skill … whether in a scrimmage situation, or a randomized drill format, or a blocked skill development session.

    * Being able to guard your own check so that s/he never gets to touch the ball in the first place is an invaluable fundamental defensive skill.

    IMO, as a top notch basketball coach, you would actually be in agreement with the importance of these three specific aspects of the game when dealing with lower level players.

    So, too, might you like the feelings of “fun and accomplishment” these girls seemed to get from overall experience with Ranadive … although I could always be wrong about that. :-)

  10. I’m guessing that the teams he was playing against weren’t really that good. Most of the best teams press because they are fast enough and strong enough to make it work. The teams that aren’t as good may press a little but definitely spend a lot of time learning to break a press.

    The article’s basic premise is that “weaker teams” can benefit from unconventional strategies is true and obvious… I agree that the youth league pressing argument was distracting… at least to people overly familiar with 12 year old girl basketball. It probably was a great argument for everyone else…

  11. Khandor & Brian,

    You guys need to form a partnership and go on the airwaves and have a sports talk radio show. It would be great. You would constantly challenge one another and be at odds on a lot of issues. The Siskel and Ebert of Basketball commentary.

    Khandor – I applauded Brian for his article because of his comments about youth basketball and the importance of skill development over winning. I could care less about what Gladwell specifically said in his story. I will find Gladwell’s article and read it. I will then reference your excellent summary in Post 8.

    Love your passion.

    cg

  12. Cgbasket,

    I always enjoy working with [rather than against] intelligent individuals like Brian and yourself.

    In my experience, effective collaboration is a key ingredient to any successful venture on a large scale.

    [Please excuse the many typos in my comments. It is not a strength of mine. Brian, feel free to delete the prior 2 comments. Thanks.]

  13. First, my one big negative is Ranadive’s comment that he “couldn’t teach them skills in that short period of time.”

    Most of the people who read this blog probably believe the primary focus of youth basketball should be skill development and instill enjoyment of the sport. Ranadive had two good players, but he also had six kids who never played before. With only two skilled players, how are you going to make games developmental, skill-building experiences playing only halfcourt offense?

    Further, if their team gets drilled by 20 or 30 per game, do you expect girls who never played before to return for another season? We can sit in our ivory towers and say “score shouldn’t matter” but the practical reality is it DOES matter in the minds of many. Their first experience with the sport might be their last.

    Ranadive could have pressed half the game and played half-court the other half. It would have given the girls some success while helping them to understand the need to work on other skills.

    I conclude that Ranadive maximized the amount of development he could pass on to HIS team for THIS season. I think we all agree he did not do a good job of developing critical basketball skills. But, we can’t fault him for keeping kids in the sport, while developing positive attitudes toward fitness, attitude, and competition at a relatively early age. In the end, I think he gave the kids a good experience, but I also believe he got what he deserved in the final game…

    Side Question: Did anyone else find it odd that the team is described as a bunch of 12 year-olds, but that they were competing in a 7th-8th grade division? Isn’t 12 a little young for 7th grade, much less 8th grade?

  14. Who said to play only half-court offense?

    How many 12-year-old teams have more than 2 skilled players? I just worked with a girl from the same organization (NJB) who was 11 and she did not know how to do a lay-up properly at the end of the season and her team did well in its league and she was a better than average player (maybe even an all-star).

    Who says that they would have lost each game by 20-30 points if they did not press?

    According to studies by the youth sports institute at Michigan State, the score and winning does not become important until teenage years. Learning, developing new skills, playing against equal competition and making new friends are valued higher than winning games. Other studies show that few kids quit sports because they lose too much; instead, they quit because practice is boring, they don’t play enough, they feel too much pressure, or negative coaching.

    In that sense, we can say that according to what he said about himself, the coach did a good job because he did not yell. However, all the excuses about the loss seem to suggest an environment overly concerned with winning. Also, the article does not say whether all the players continued to play (planned to play) in the following season or not.

    Look, I pressed with 9-year-olds. That’s not the point. The point is (1) pressing is not unconventional and (2) you can develop skills in a limited amount of time. You’re not going to perfect everything. With 9-year-olds, we focused on guarding the ball, ball handling and teaching competitiveness. We worked on these things every day.

    And, when we faced a good team in the Southern California AAU finals who beat our press, we moved to half-court defense and they struggled to score. In a sense, the half-court defense was the unconventional strategy because everyone presses because everyone knows it’s a game of getting and making lay-ups.

    Also, Khandor believes that the players were taught to make lay-ups. Not necessarily. In a 32-minute game with a team pressing and generating that many turnovers, they likely had 70+ possessions. If the scores were in the 20′s and 30′s, that means they scored on less than 20% of their possessions while shooting predominantly lay-ups. When I was 12, my coach did not allow us to start practice until our team made 20 right-handed and 20 left-handed lay-ups in a row. Every player had to be able to make lay-ups with both hands. It’s no coincidence that we won the city championship.

    Finally, if you read my take, my ire is directed equally at the other coaches whose teams cannot handle the press even though this league starts at 8-years-old and presumably not every player was brand new that season as 12-year-olds.

    That is the problem. The players have played for several years and now they cannot break a press. So, this particular team presses and does not even try to develop skills. So, what happens as 13-year-olds? You have an entire “development” league and none of them are learning anything about basketball because as demonstrated by the other teams, they cannot execute simple skills like getting open and making an inbound pass.

    With my 9-year–olds, we felt that if we developed competiiors who could handle the ball and make lay-ups (power, reverse, crossover and traditional with both hands), the u-10 coach could focus on shooting or passing or setting screens or whatever. Then the u-11 coach could focus on new skills.

    Instead, in this league, their u-11 coach apparently did not develop any skills because the players were described as unskilled and now the u-12 coach did not develop any skills so the u-13 coach will take the same “peak by friday” approach and create a system to win without developing skills, etc. When do they learn the basics?

    So, it’s great that the girls had fun and worked on their fitness. Yay for them. However, I don’t see how either team – the “insurgents” or the teams getting waxed – demonstrates anything developmental about basketball. If I was the high school coach in Redwood City, and these players were feeding into my program, I’d be pissed that they aren’t learning even the most basic skills even though they have played several years of basketball.

  15. Brian,

    re: Look, I pressed with 9-year-olds. That’s not the point. The point is (1) pressing is not unconventional …

    When you say something like that, right there, it seems as though you may have missed THE main thrust of the article … which is that:

    “Pressing” is, in fact, a highly “unconventional” tactic to employ with a team [youth or otherwise] that is accurately described as being quite non-Goliath like [i.e. similar to the biblical David and the real-life T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia)].

    The article is NOT about what you are trying to make it into, re: an example of a youth coach focused on “winning” over “skill development” and a failure to teach an array of fundamental basketball skills.

  16. For those familiar with the concept and use of “negative space” in Art … in this specific instance:

    It’s important to focus on the “positive space” in these pieces of work, i.e. both Ranadive’s girls team and the article by Gladwell, rather than what may not have been said at all, or was de-emphasized in them.

    Food For Thought :-)

  17. A nice post..thanks for sharing the invaluable piece of information on the techniques.

    drills for basketball

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